Last year my writing group gave me a writing assignment. Interview my 3rd Great Grandmother Chloe Clarke Willson. Naturally, since Chloe died in 1874, this would necessarily be a creative piece unless I suddenly discover divine powers previously unknown to me. My friends probably also suspected it would be a stretch for me as I like to have my facts straight as I write, although I’m becoming more comfortable with uncertainty, gray and stretching the truth as we may or may not know it. The suggestion followed my June 2023 interview by the West Linn Alliance as supported by the West Linn Public Library.

…As I shared in the audio interview below, I’ve often thought about how I would love to have an open conversation with my third great grandmother, Chloe Clark Wilson. After all, at 21 she decided to devote her life, leave family from the East Coast while believing she’d never see them again, and travel into the unknown: Oregon Country not yet part of the United States. She was single, and only allowed to join the Jason Lee Methodist Expedition because she was invited to be the teacher. (Learn more about Chloe and family.)…
Pondering privilege on Dede’s Blog

Here we go!

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Dede. “Welcome, Grandma Chloe. It’s a pleasure to be with you today and I appreciate your jumping Aboard the Future to meet me. I’ve long thought about you and your life all those years ago. I’ve had to make do with your journal along with stories that traveled through time between family members and historians.”

Chloe Clark Willson.”Thank you Dede. That’s an unusual name, if you don’t mind me saying so? And, er, would you like to put on a wrap or more clothing?” (Chloe hesitates and looks down.) Yes, I am feeling dazed from the travel. Nothing that I remember from my day moved as quickly, I must say. And is it always this hot in July in Oregon?”

DM “Thank you Grandma Chloe. Actually, my given name is Dorothy Delia. Yes, I know you had a granddaughter Dorothy, daughter of my 2nd Great Grandparents Frances and J.K. We visited her frequently when I was a child and we referred to her as “Dobbie.” (Chloe smiles.). I’d have you know, also, that my own first grandson represents eight generations of family in Oregon. And, thanks to your daughter Kate’s descendants, there is a young Chloe roaming around also. (I’m certain I hear Chloe giggle.) I know we don’t have much time today, so I apologize but I want to get straight to my questions. I have so many! And I hope I didn’t take too many liberties writing about you in my memoir My Music Man and blog. I’m grateful Willamette University had the interest and foresight to preserve your journal and put them online.”

CW “I’m not quite sure what you’re talking about.” (She hesitates.) “However, I must say, glory me! How in the world did all those scraps of paper survive?”

DM “Oh yes, I’m sorry. There have been so many changes to our lives since you were alive.” (I say simply. How to explain the changes in writing and technology to someone who knew only paper and pen?). “Your son-in-law, Frances’s husband J.K. Gill, donated the journal to Willamette University.“

CW (Chloe chuckles.) “That J.K! Your Great Great Grandfather? Goodness me! I knew from those first hours meeting him in our Wilbraham, Massachusetts rooming house that he would amount to something interesting. He was a bit too stern with those grandkids, and sometimes even adults, I would say.” (Chloe shakes her head.) “But he believed in books. Lordy, he believed in books and had good business sense. Certainly far more book and business-minded than my dear William. May he continue to rest in peace.”

DM “Let’s start at the top, if we can? Can you tell me why you chose to join the long sailing expedition of the Jason Lee Reinforcements alone to Oregon. After all, you left your family. I understand you also told your father, before leaving, you had no intention of marrying the man he proposed for you?“

CW “Let’s get this correct, first!” (Chloe’s voice raises slightly). “I traveled with God and for God’s will and purpose. It was more important than anything else to me. I had heard Dr. Lee at the Academy and I believed in what I felt was my highest purpose. Honestly, I still believed in him even after the Methodists replaced him, although my William had his doubts. Oh, and marriage? That’s all a bit of a story my grand-daughter made up, I suspect. She was a bit of a romantic! I never had any interest in that young man or any other back then. Those boys were silly and didn’t understand how important it was for me to follow this path. And I don’t think my parents understood either. But when I heard Dr. Lee preach at Wilbraham (Academy), why, I knew what my life’s calling had to be.”

DM “Can you tell me more about that calling?“

CW “Oh, I suspect I was naive too. Imagine, only twenty-one years old! Later with my daughters and granddaughters I remember thinking how young they were when they were of this age. I was too young to understand the world then. The world of men too. I imagined then what an opportunity I would have to bring Christ to those Indians. To make their lives better! To help them find civilization. To help each of us be the good people Christ saw in each of us.” (Chloe sighs.) “It was later when I realized my gifts might be better served to young women looking to be educated.”

DM. “Speaking of the Native Americans you met. I must admit, this is hard for me to ask you. But I was troubled by your reference to those you taught at the Falls as “Heathens.”

CW. Chloe takes a breath. “Oh my dear Granddaughter! I don’t understand. Is “heathen” a bad word? I was simply stating what we believed because they did not yet believe in God.”

DM. (I take a breath. I want to talk about all the other gods. The other beliefs. The disease. What she may have come to believe later as an older woman. And yet I remind myself. This is Chloe’s interview. Not mine.) “Can you remember the Willamette (“Willamet”) Falls when you first saw them? How would you describe them?”

CW. “Oh my, yes. They were nearly the most magnificent thing I’d ever seen. The main flow of the river roared as it tore through. Great piles of wood extended out from the shore.” (Chloe takes a deep breath and let’s it out with a sigh.) “It’s hard also for me not to remember the horrible loss we had shortly before we relocated to Salem when dear Dr. Leslie’s daughters were drowned when crossing the river nearby. Perhaps you read about this in my journal? I’ve never forgiven myself for not somehow insisting that they find another crossing for those dear young girls.”

DM. “Oh I’m so sorry. I can’t imagine. Does it surprise you to know that your son-in-law J.K. Gill is still remembered by many in Portland because of his book store? And that there is an elementary school named after you near where the Nisqually Mission was. In fact I’ve heard the kids sing happy birthday to you each spring out near the statue they erected to your likeness!

CW. (Chloe gasps. Soon after she giggles.) “Truly? How can that be? A school? With my name? I loved children more than nearly anything else. That pleases me more than you can imagine.” (I can detect tears in her eyes as she hesitates a moment, before dabbing at them.) “And J.K. is still remembered, all these years later? That would make him quite happy, I suspect. He cared so much about that store and its success. I can’t say he was quite as interested in his children or grandchildren, though perhaps I’m not being fair to him. He was a kind man, just quite serious you might say.”

DM. “I found it interesting that you disagreed with William about donating your portion of your land claim to Willamette University as he did, keeping it instead for today’s downtown Salem and our state capitol. Might you be willing to explain that for me?”

CW “Really?” (Chloe’s voice rises a bit) “Really? “I’m surprised as a woman you need me to explain why I never agreed to William’s decision. Sometimes we woman just have to put our feet down and remind these men they can’t make all the decisions, even though they seem to feel they can rule everything. I made it very clear from the start that I wanted that land for our home and whatever else seemed best. That the University would be fine without it. (Chloe grumbles.) “I can’t believe we’re still talking about this.”

DM MIght you tell me more about the work and teaching you did once you moved from The Falls to Salem?

CW Oh, I always adored children. It began on the ship, trying to entertain them and help them understand Christian character during those long hours. Although I hoped to teach the Indian children in Nisqually and at The Falls, I can’t help but believe I failed. When we began the Oregon Institute, it was my chance to work with young ladies. Girls, really. And, of course it was important to teach them about respect and responsibility. You must remember that before I had my own three daughters, I had a few young ladies boarding with me when we first opened the Oregon Institute. Imagine, a few of them would even take the steamboat upriver from The Falls to get some education with me! Not long after when I was the Women’s Dean at Willamette University, you can imagine I still felt I needed to model what it was to be a good Christian woman. Then, before I knew it I had three little ones on my own. And they all attended college! But you must understand the times were different. When I was old, living in Portland, long after my dear William had died, I lived with J.K. and Frances in one of those big houses. A big beautiful house. Those granddaughters of mine teased me about the old-fashioned studies I had taught in those old days. They told me times were a changing. And they were, but I can’t even imagine what it might be today. Although did I hear right that there still hasn’t been a woman President of the United States of America? You are so far in the future from my time….(she trails off). I iwould have expected otherwise.”

DM. “Thank you, Grandma Chloe. I have one question that feels sensitive, but I’m compelled to ask. Sometime recently I heard news that your William was engaged to someone else before you and he married. This person felt slighted by William not being honest to her. I understand if you don’t want to discuss this, but is there anything you might offer?“

CW. “Listen, my young granddaughter. (Chloe lets out another deep sigh.)”There may be things my dear William had in his past and I didn’t have an interest then nor certainly now in spending precious time worrying about them. And it’s none of anyone’s business. I loved William and we both knew what our purpose together was.”

DM. “Thank you Grandma Chloe. I have admired learning about your independence and spirit. (I hesitate on this one, but know I must proceed.) Many of us have a hard time reckoning how Oregon enforced exclusion laws for Blacks long after other states. I’m curious how you felt about this?

CW. (Quickly with emotion). “Slavery is wrong.”
(I wait. I want more. I think about querying her further. I know I want to believe my white ancestors opposed the white status quo of those days in Oregon. I hesitate and give Chloe more time to respond. She remains silent. I move on.

DM. “I can’t tell you how wonderful this has been to meet you and connect. I do wish we had more time together. My final question is about your decision to return to Oregon after William had died and you and your three young daughters moved East for a few years. Can you speak to that?“

CW. “That seems to be the question so many friends asked me. Honestly, sometimes I simply chose to ignore it. If it’s not obvious to people then why bother really?” (Chloe hesitates). “The older I got, the more I found I was easily irritated by some people. Even though I know that isn’t the Christian spirit. Of course I would return to Oregon! That is where William and I made our life and where our daughters were born! It’s where I grew into being a woman and then a mother. After his death I was overwhelmed by the thought of raising our three young girls on my own, without family and some of the conveniences of modern society such present in the East Coast of America. It was helpful to meet J.K. He understood my quest. It was only a manner of time when I knew it was time to return. Oh my those girls, especially Frances, weren’t happy about it. And yet, in the end we knew Oregon was our home. And thank you, my dear Great Great Great Granddaughter. This has been interesting and heartwarming. Please say hello to all the other descendants and tell them to be kind to each other.”

I say good bye to this third great grandmother of mine, and give her a hug as the vision slowly disappears. Yes, I think. Oregon is our home. Even with the good and the bad, the hopes and the fears. It has been our home. A good home.

Learn more about Chloe:
My Music Man (memoir, 2017)
Blogs about Chloe, William and J.K.

Willamette Heritage Center in Salem (home of exhibits about the Jason Lee Missionaries) and volunteer dressed up as Chloe Clarke with Dede (yes, on a knee scooter in 2016).